Brainwashing? (or, why do Marines stay Marines forever)

Carrie and I got in a bit of a disagreement the other day.  The details aren’t necessary (because it wouldn’t make much sense), but I did come to a conscious understanding finally of why Marines remain Marines forever.  It isn’t brainwashing, as some would like to believe.  I am very aware of the negative aspects of the Marine Corps, and how slow the Marine Corps can be in doing the right thing socially.  I’m also aware of our proud history and the understanding that the world would not be the same without the Marine Corps.  That’s not bravado, that’s fact.  However, that isn’t why I am proud to be a Marine.  It’s not why I choose to keep it in my life.

You see, the people that I know that keep the Marine Corps in their life do so because of how being a Marine makes them a better person.  This will be different for everyone.  For me, being a Marine inspires me to do just a little more than I would otherwise.  It motivates me to get off my lazy ass and do what needs to be done.  It is was pushes me to work when I’d rather do nothing – because that’s what a Marine does.  I choose to keep the best parts of the Marine Corps in my life, not because I was brainwashed, but because it made me a better person.  I think the reason people can’t fully leave it behind is because they know that, for better or worse, there are some definite benefits to becoming a Marine.  And that is what we hold onto.  It’s in any human’s best interest to keep those things that make them a better person.  That is what is instilled in Marines.

So maybe that isn’t so groundbreaking now that I write it out, but when it came to me the other day, it finally made sense.  Maybe for those who aren’t Marines, but who love Marines can now understand a bit more why we are the way we are.  I doesn’t explain everything, that’s for sure.  But it hopefully sheds a little light on the mysterious heart of the United States Marine.

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38 Responses to “Brainwashing? (or, why do Marines stay Marines forever)”

  1. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    One thing I noticed about all inductions into the service, is that in order to stand for it, we have to be completely lacking in Self Respect for our own individuality.

  2. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    Ask yourself, “what kind of identity to you have, that is not DEPENDENT on being a member of a group?

  3. butchjax Says:

    From an outside perspective, sure. But from experience, that isn’t the case. I maintained my individuality just fine. It’s the outside of the individuality that changes, but not the inside. And that’s where the self truly lies. All that outside stuff is pretty irrelevent. What I needed to do was think of how my actions affected the group, rather than just me. I also had to learn to listen to others who had more knowledge and understanding than myself. This was important for me to do. Being such a strong person with strong sense of self, it was valuable to put this aside and follow someone. Thankfully the people I had to follow I willingly followed because they were outstanding Marines. And those that weren’t, out in the fleet, I got into a bit of trouble with. But that’s ok. What Marine doesn’t get in trouble? lol

    So, while I understand what you’re saying, that really isn’t the case. Unless someone wants it to be. But that’s also voluntary.

  4. butchjax Says:

    Who I am doesn’t depend on the group. The true sense of self is that which remains no matter what group you are a part of, or whether you’re on an isolated island all by yourself. That’s why I say the self doesn’t go anywhere. Instead you choose to take on another aspect of your identity, to expand the self to incorporate new aspects. Like I said, I have kept those things that I view as positive and that improve me as a person. Those are the things that I call my Marine self that I keep around and am discussing here.

    I think it’s easy for people who haven’t experienced the military to judge it as a negative thing. Like I said, there are good and bad aspects, but I don’t think I lost any part of myself there. And anything that was lost or gained was done voluntarily on my part. It was a decision I made. No one is forced into the military, and no one is forced to be a mindless zombie. The Marine Corps isn’t trying to create them either. I can’t speak for other branches, as they are different, but the Marine Corps expects people to become leaders very quickly. That involves thinking for yourself, in addition to following orders from above. And even following orders requires creative thinking because sometimes the orders are simply wrong because the higher ups don’t have good intelligence. It is not in the best interest of the Marine Corps to have idiots running around. The things we were taught all had a reason, and it wasn’t to make us mindless morons.

    People will believe what they want to believe however. All I can do is look at things from my perspective and know my truth. I’ve had to face a lot of truth when facing the Marine Corps, some of which is very painful and hard to see. But it had to be done so I could live with it all now. And I do live with it, in an aware fashion. So take it as you wish.

  5. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    I said Identity. Individual identity and the responsibility and accountiblility for decision making that goes with it. NO military group of any kind, can have independent decision making going on. You’re told what to do, when.

    Note. Being a Marine, hasn’t made you more accepting and confident in yourself as a gay person.

  6. butchjax Says:

    Being told what to do, when, occurs in any job. I don’t see any difference between the job I did in the Corps and the jobs I have done as a civilian. I was told when I worked, what I was to do at work, etc. And, I had to make decisions about how to do what I was told to do. I think you have a very mistaken idea of what life is like in the military.

    And actually, the Marine Corps taught me very valuable lessons about accepting myself and being confident about who I am. Was I forced to hide it? Of course. But I was never ashamed of it. I had to decide what was most important, the truth or trying to find a way to survive in a bad situation. I chose the truth, because I didn’t see my situation improving. But that’s because of my workgroup, not the Corps as a whole. I know other gay people who have been able to go multiple enlistments without trouble.

    Your assuming based on no actual experience with the Marine Corps. I think people find it easier to make the military the bad guy when they aren’t any different than many other civilian jobs. Actually, it was better in the Corps because if I didn’t do something right, I just got chewed out, or maybe some extra duty. But I couldn’t be fired and lose my livelihood like in the civilian world.

    I think your opinions are based on bias. It’s ok, everyone has bias. But so far everything you’ve said does not match the reality of many people’s experiences in the military. It’s not that hard to maintain a strong sense of self if you went in with one. Like I said, the Marine Corps changed me in positive ways. It didn’t turn me into a mindless killer, it helped me see that there are many things that we don’t know. For instance, one of our drill instructors explained that the reason they are always yelling at us to pick up our feet is because, in a war time situation, if there is a chemical attack you kick up more dust, which carries the chemical, if you drag your feet. So for safety, you need to pick up your feet. Plus, if you’re trying to be quiet, it makes more noise and can cause you to trip when on uneven terrain. All important reasons. But that’s a lot to think about. So instead, as recruits, all we need to worry about is picking up our feet. This is why I say, there is a reason for everything, but not everyone needs to know the details. That’s why I willingly followed my drill instructors. They knew things that I didn’t know, and their orders were based on that information. That’s why it’s so important to have leaders that are trustworthy. It keeps things running smoothly. Those who have shown to make poor decisions also find that people aren’t so willing to follow. Because, again, we’re not trained to be mindless zombies.

    But I’m rambling, so I’ll stop here.

  7. Loquacious Curmudgeon Says:

    You’ve brought up some really interesting points. I never served in any branch of the military, so I have no personal experience with which to form an opinion. I do know that, as a gay man, of the friends I have, many have served in the military and are great individuals – both because of and in spite of those experiences. According to them. I just think they rock as people, regardless as to what they attribute their personal growth.

    The military does get a bad rap. I think we, as a society, tend to blame the average Joe or Josephine in uniform for the policies made by the brass and we also tend to think of all soldiers as alike individuals, when they only function as alike because that seems to be part of the training.

    I’ve seen as much diversity – intellectual, emotional and physical – among friends and family who’ve served in the armed forces as I have outside of it.

    Thanks for sharing!

  8. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    You may think as you will, of course. I simply rlate this topic, of your emotional depdence ipon being a member of this group, to your other post about ‘ascension’ and why you are having the experience you are. Note what I posted about being rigidly tied to your Identity.

    My perspective is coming from someone who was born with a healthy sense of Self Respect. The treatment in the marine core is abusive to individuality in the extreme and, you will one day have to deal the effects of it, when you surrender your ego attachments to it.

  9. butchjax Says:

    Abuse is perceived. I have found peace for all the negative aspects. Therefore there are no repercussions, as I have moved beyond them. I’m quite surprised that you are so insistent on this. Remember, you don’t actually know. You think you know, but you don’t. You don’t know me, you don’t know my experiences, you don’t know what actually happens on a day to day basis in the military because there is no one experience. I can think of many worse experiences that people don’t consider to be worse in the normal civilian world. I know that I don’t know, but it sure sounds like you have a strong bias against something that you think you understand, but don’t. Yes, in theory, what you’re saying is true. But that’s not the reality of the situation. But, as many times as I’ve tried to speak about reality, it doesn’t matter, so it doesn’t seem like you care about reality, just your perception of how horribly evil the military is, without considering that there are many other experiences within the military. But that’s fine, everyone has their blind spots, this is clearly one of yours.

    Loquacious, you’re very right. There are so many different kinds of people in the military. I don’t think civilians realize that. I’ve met some of the most amazing people in the Corps, and wouldn’t give that experience up for anything. I also met some assholes. Just like anywhere else.

    I hope you’re doing alright. Haven’t stopped by your blog for a while due to my own time constraints. I’ll have to do that when I’m not working overtime. Take care!

  10. Robert Says:

    One meets ‘all kinds’ in the military. While in the army, I had a roomie who was straght out of high school and a natural athlete. His ‘world’ had expanded from his hometown to ‘the world’ after training and being in Europe. Another roomie was a four year college man working toward a specialty in Art Restoration — always cool to come in at the end of the day and see one whole wall turned into a mural depicting a scene from the Civil War. Third roomie was a smoker and a doper. Work week, he was squared away and in top shape — weekends (while off duty) he was the most laid back ‘dude’ one would meet. And those were all ‘roomies’ and not the other 300 folks who helped make our little corner of the world operate… cooks, mechanics, first termers and lifers.

    More personalities and individuals than you can shake a stick at… and nearly all (ya, we did have some real slackers at times who hated what the army was about as soon as they signed up… most of those were not happy anywhere they were ((and some were told to join or go to jail. Some of *those* turned their lives around.. and some spent more time in the military jails)))

    … practically all had healthy views of themselves, where they wanted to go after their tour and many had college and more planned out for their time ‘after serving’.

    Volunteering is not an abdication of ‘self’ to the system. They do ask for strict codes of conduct and would prefer immediate responses at times (hard to explain to someone who gets their head blown off while arguing — the ‘merits’ of hitting the dirt. In those cases, they are expected to ‘do it’ based on the trust of those who have ‘walked those roads before’ and lived to tell the tale.) On the other hand, points of view, logic, and smart discussion were always welcome when attacking tasks; pre-planning missions; and general ‘how to do things smarter and not harder’.

    As Jax said, no different than most job environments.. except you can’t get pissed and walk away or not like it one morning and ‘quit’ (well, not easily). It takes the notion of ‘committment’ and holding to the promise, contract, and oath one swore upon entering… to serve and protect; uphold the honor of the service; ‘on call’ 24/7; to protect the peoples of the United States and uphold the Constitution.

    No zombies take that oath who willing give of their time and life to honor that duty.

  11. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    Here’s the question…

    How much of what you Valued and give meaning to…

    is directly associated with your emotional NEED to physically DOMINATE?

    For the emotional NEED to DOMINATE expresses inner weakness and surrender of POWER over Reality.

  12. Sue Ann Edwards Says:

    Hoorah for surrendering of power!

  13. butchjax Says:

    I don’t have any greater sense to dominate due to the Marine Corps. And, it’s something that I’m very aware of and work to control, as I have all my life. But surprisingly enough, I really don’t have much of a desire to dominate at all. I don’t have the urge to fight, I don’t have the desire to fight people, physically or even verbally. I’m a very non-confrontational person by nature. Even in all my years of karate I didn’t enjoy trying to win. Physically sparring was always about testing my ability to find openings – never about dominating the other person.

    I don’t think you know me half as well as you think you do. But, I only put so much information on this, in a small window of time in my life.

    And what you see as people surrendering power, we all see differently. I see it as having gained more power through the skills I gained, and what I learned about myself. I am far stronger mentally and emotionally for my experiences. Yes, I had to go through some rough patches to gain that strength, but that’s what was necessary for me to come into my own and find my power. It’s what a lot of people need to find themselves, which is why they go that route. There’s no one route to self discovery and empowerment. You need to remember that. Yes, you have some good information to pass along to people, and an understanding of your path and how it works. But you forget that your path does not apply to everyone. It’s something I have to constantly remind myself of too. It’s easy to think that your way is the right way, because it was for you. But when you really listen to people, you can see that it isn’t the only way.

  14. Robert Says:

    lol

    My desire was… to not have to go to college for a while AND not go back to work. That and to ‘see’ if I’d like being in the military ‘fill time’ since I was taking some ROTC classes… which would soon ask if I was willing to ‘sign’ to be an officer. Since the officer commitment was a lot longer than a four year tour… did the enlisted thing first to ‘get a fell’….. that and not work or go to school.

    Duh.. Universe has grand sense of humor. :-)
    After basic, was sent to linguistics school for a year; and additional training for another nine months after that. So much for ‘getting out of school’ for a while. DID get exposure to many places and many people and a lot of officers… from fresh lieutenants to multi-starred generals. Some good, some fair, some … well, should not have been officers to start with. Same for the enlisted ranks too.

    After four years.. decided it was ‘time’ to go back and get a degree… and then decided if I wanted to ‘come back in’. Military did serve my purpose in one or two ways. After serving four years, it helped to pay for my final college years. Did travel ‘around the world’.. though not as much as I should have. Could have taken lots more mini-trips throughout Europe and the Med. Never did make it to NZ or Australia or Japan… maybe someday.

    Still… never had an urge to ‘dominate’.. or that ‘being in the military’ was somehow ‘empowering’ over others or dehumanizing to ‘us’ who lived pretty normal lives.. even for wearing non-designer green suits. Even when I ‘climbed the ranks’… it was due to my knowledge, experience, and ability to express myself intelligently as much as ‘been there; done that (more than once)’ as compared to the ‘new kids’ who came after.

    Not a lot of ‘chest beating’ past basic. Normally, the ones who are ‘into’ the whole idea of violence and dominance either ‘get an education’ during boot thanks to experienced drill sergeants (who have heard and seen most of ‘it all’) or from their fellow compatriots, who soon mature enough to see how stupid ‘monkey macho displays’. By the time a couple of years had gone by, I met very very few who were that way.

    Now, when I went to Turkey and stayed at an air base….. there were a couple of hot shot jet fighter pilots who were all full of themselves. But, that’s sort of the ‘nature of the beast’ for jet fighter pilots of that time.

  15. Wheeler,H Says:

    I’m not a Marine yet and I beleve serve your friends, family, country. I have no problem with Marines. Carrie is one of my best friends. She’s a Marine and I’m proud of her!!

  16. Grady Philpott Says:

    I’m a former Marine and I agree with you completely.

    Those here who speak of a lack of self respect or of a lack of individuality have no idea of what those two things mean, because they have never belonged to something greater than themselves.

    They don’t know what it means to be a member of a great team of patriots and at the same time to not only respect oneself, but to respect one’s own individuality.

    Individuality is worthless if it cannot be subjugated at the right moment in the interest of the greater good and without self respect that would be impossible.

    I feel sorry for those here who have responded so negatively, but their cluelessness only makes me more proud to have been and to still be a United States Marine.

    Semper Fidelis.

  17. Laura Says:

    Your loyalty to the group that gave you the ability to perceive yourself via its disciplinary ethic I admire. That disciplinary ethic the military instills in the individual is what can provide anyone true freedom — even from self.

  18. Jules Says:

    This was well put. as a marine myself i’d have to say it’s different for everyone. . you may not be brainwashed but some are. you just took all the right things the marines have to offer, and also kept your own mind. which is great. kudos.

  19. Anthony Says:

    If anything, people misunderstand the Marine Corps.

    They hear the words discipline and think of something they are accustomed to in civilian life to relate. They think of faith, they think of their own beliefs. They hear loyalty, they see statistics that say 50% of married couples eventually divorce.

    If these people stepped into the shoes of a Marine to see the true meaning of these ‘words’ then maybe they would understand.

    Who’s more brainwashed? The public has a terrible definition of words like loyalty, discipline, and faith; even worse is their ability to hold themselves to these standards. A Marine has much higher standards than anyone else; people do not understand that.

    I will admit there are some cases where ‘brainwashing’ may have happened but I firmly believe the triumphs of our Corps overshadows any evils in the big picture.

  20. John Says:

    Anthony, you have to be kidding. Who’s more brainwashed? The Marine is. What is the true meaning of faith and loyalty? Obviously a Marine knows the answer (sarcasm). Yea, right. Just because ones not a Marine doesn’t mean he or she doesn’t know the meaning of faith and loyalty. You said Marines know the “true” definition of faith and loyalty, but you never gave it.

  21. Mc Escker Says:

    It is simple. The Marine Corps needs killers. They don’t need to have people who care for human life. Their job is to carry out the will of the government without question. Marines are the thugs. The mindless killing machines who do the will of the state. They commit the crimes others find ethically and morally difficult. They are brainwashed to believe their crimes are not crimes, but acts of patriotism and honor. Then they are sent to die for their little piece of ribbon. This is all to maintain the power of the empire.

  22. butchjax Says:

    Clearly this is something you want and need to believe. It doesn’t matter if someone who has actually experienced this processed has presented a different perspective based on their own self awareness. Instead you want to lump hundreds of thousands of people together and make assumptions. I was taught to think in boot camp. Doesn’t sound like you’ll believe that anyway, but that’s what the military teaches now because the mission is different. War is different. The last thing the military needs is mindless thugs. There is right and wrong, even in war. A person knows what that right and wrong is, even if they choose to ignore it. Killing someone who is attempting to kill countless others is not wrong. Cops do it all the time. Are they thugs? Sometimes they kill innocent people too, should we categorize them as thugs and killers and just trying to keep the empire around?

    Eh, it doesn’t matter. I wrote this for people who wanted to think critically about the issue and hear a perspective not heard often. It’s not for those who refuse to consider another option. I know who I am, I know my experiences, and I know the good and the bad I got from the Marine Corps. If this blog helps some people see a little more gray in their life instead of black and white, that’s enough.

  23. Mc Escker Says:

    Gray?

    You throw in terms like FOREVER, and want gray… Doesn’t seem like it.

  24. butchjax Says:

    Forever is a relative term and a play on a commonly held belief that once a Marine, always a Marine. But actually I do have experience that many Marines remain so even after death, so it can be rather true, depending on the individual. Of course there are also people who completely leave it behind. But that’s why I say that we choose to hold onto elements because they are beneficial to our lives. It’s one reason I can say this isn’t brainwashing – because it’s a choice.

    The thing is, I’ve said all these things before, if you didn’t want to hear them then you aren’t going to hear them now. Go ahead, blame Marines for all the bad in the world. Ignore that the Marines were instrumental in preventing the spread of people who have and intended to do very bad things – or should we just let the Hitlers of the world or Japanese emperors just destroy innocent people without interference? Like it or not, sometimes there are no peaceful solutions – that war is the most peaceful solution. All the time? No way. But sometimes it takes physical intervention to stop physical intervention. It’s just the way it is with unevolved humans.

  25. 2010 in review « Searching for my truth… Says:

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  26. Brandon Says:

    I am considering joining the Marine Corps… I know all of the reasons I should join, but would like to know both sides before making such a big decision. Does anyone have any insight to the negative aspects of the marine corps?

    Anything will help, thanks!

  27. butchjax Says:

    The negatives are pretty straight forward. For 4-5 years, your life is not your own. You will work hard for little pay. You’ll work stupid hours sometimes with no choice in the matter. You’ll risk being in a unit with people who suck. And you’ll be deployed most likely. But for all that, things can also be really good. You can meet people that will be lifelong friends. You’ll learn more about yourself, gaining inner strength and confidence. So really it comes down to why you want to do it and what you want from it. I don’t regret my time even with the bad things that happened. So it’s really a crap shoot – though that’s true of anything you do. Follow your intuition. If you want to do it, do it. You only have a short time where you can do it and it’s rarely something people regret, even if it sucks.

  28. Sgt. Conner Says:

    In the marines my unit just terrorized a bunch of Iraqi civillians. 3 guys I knew got blown to pieces, and the rest are pretty much assholes now.

  29. butchjax Says:

    But the Marine Corps didn’t teach them how to be assholes. My focus here is on boot camp, which also does not teach people to be assholes. My criticism can come when thinking about what isn’t taught in boot camp such as how to handle war mentally and emotionally. If a person comes out an asshole it’s because they aren’t dealing with what’s around them. And if harassing civilians is occurring that is a lack of leadership.

  30. Silver Surfer Says:

    You wrote this a long time ago Jax, but I enjoyed reading your perspective, and even a lot of the comments.

    Up until recently, I think I had a very similar perspective to Sue’s, and maybe even Carrie’s as I thought people in the military in general were brainwashed. But it kind of occurred to me, that I had almost been brainwashed to think that way. Mainly, because my mom went on and on about bad military this, and bad military that. And I think it’s maily because she didn’t want me to ever go into it, out of fear that she might lose me, and because well, most people who came back from the military in our family were cranky assholes. So I can understand her dislike. But in reality, her kids can die at a moments notice, from anything. And I have met people who were in the military who are very nice, and fun to be around. You, for example, I mean I haven’t known you for very long, or even offline, but you seem to not be a jerk. ;)

    And what I have been getting lately is, it’s not that people in the military are mindless robots, it’s that they are given incredible “power” or responsibility to be in a position to protect, serve and do things not everyone gets to do. And in order to be someone who gets to have that responsibility the mindset has to change, from me, to us. And you have to get out of that civilian mindset into the mindset of someone who is going to be effective and do what they need to do.

    It’s not that they take you away, or your individuality, but maybe help make you better. Of course, I have no experience so I cannot say for sure. But it seems, if you go in, knowing who you are and what you want, you will get to choose who you become, like you were saying more or less.

    But anyway, I am carrying on, I just wanted to say that you have added to my changing perspective.

  31. Realistic Says:

    There is certainly very negative aspects of the Marine Corps they need to address. If someone were to say the Marine Corps boot camp does not employ brainwashing techniques, they’re ignorant on a massive scale. The first phase of boot camp is about breaking down a person’s sense of sensitivity and individuality. The Marine Corps employs several brainwashing techniques such as sleep deprivation, lack of food, brutal discipline, overwhelming physical & psycological stress, etc. The goal is to transform people into effective “Rambos” and brainwash them into not being able to think for themselves.

    They even force recruits to shout “Kill” repeatedly while shoving bayonets into human-like manikins. Eventually teaching these recuits to devalue others and rather treat human beings only as targets. Drill instructors are insatiable, overly harsh and discriminating to recuits to turn them into tough, insensitive automatons. So that they obey every order without question. And the claim I was only following orders has been used to justify too many atrocities in military history. From unjustified massacres of hundreds of civilians in Vietnam to atrocities commited in Iraq and Afganistan.

    They also tend to indoctinate recuits to dehumanize others especially the enemy. Essentially promoting racism, sexism, and the eagerness to want to kill in war is now part of the process of making a marine. This self-importance of being a marine creates a prideful perpestive of themselves to where they develop cruel attitudes. Marine Corps boot camp can certainly create inhumane monsters.

    Please do not misunderstand me. I have great respect for marines, I have known a few. Even one who unfortunately had post traumatic stress syndrome because of what he had been through. And yes the U.S. military has done good things such as aiding civilians in Somolia after 300,000 starved to death by the warlord Aidid. However, I do have a disdain for the Marine Corps due to it being a system based on pride and brutality. It’s been this way ever since the start of the Cold War and it needs to change.

    Please read this article from a former marine Sgt. Martin Smith:

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/America/Training_Killers_Military.html

  32. Jeremy Monica Says:

    There is so many subsects within our soceity, all of them have their set norms,mores, and folkways. Just about every person in the world identifies themselves in different social circles. Why is it that people are so quick to assume that the military is brainwashing people. I was a Marine for 4 years; i volunteered under my own free will, i quickly realized that the treatment i received at bootcamp was at it’s root aimed at learning teamwork, building self-confidence, self-esteem, and critical thinking. The myth that we are trained to blindly follow orders is just ridiculas. Brainwashing by definition means that the person being brainwashed is doing so to his or her detriment. I learned alot about my self and my strengths/weaknesses. I improved my sense os self and my compacity to succeed at anything i put my efforts into. Before the Marines i had a very fragile sense of self, i lefted with the expeirences that has got me where i am today in excellent health physically and psychologically. To those people that can’t accept this i would encourage you to talk to as many veterans as you can, i believe that you will get very similiar responses. Jeremy M

  33. Scott E. Jenkins Says:

    Sue Ann Edwards is your typical everyday civilian talking about stuff she doesn’t even knows. Not a single statement that she brought made any possible sense, nor did her ideas.

    I’m generally tired of seeing those people who we are supposed to protect to take it out on us. If you don’t like us fighting so much, why don’t you try to pick a gun and just go in there yourself. We’ll see how you’ll survive in a critical situation without discipline.

    It would be a very amusing sight to have those people to actually defend themselves. Amusing yet sad. Because people can’t understand that not everything can be solved peacefully. Not everyone is nice. Not everyone has time to dick around or to just sit on their ass and plan each move they will make.

    The marines are the exact opposite of those people. The marines are the quick response to trouble, the painkiller to whatever danger is above the US. We’re few and we’re proud to defend our country. But to do so, we need organization and instincts, which we can not acquire without proper training and skills.

    Just because the same training and skills are given to every and each marine, doesn’t means we’re all the same. Far from that. Whatever you may say about your ego, the only thing I can see in your ego is that it pushes you to open your big mouth without reason, on things you have not the slightest idea about. The marines are educated to avoid just that. Empty talking.

  34. butchjax Says:

    I think most civilians don’t realize the reality of the military, but especially the Marine Corps. They don’t understand it, and really, how could they? I didn’t understand it until I became one. And even then, I can’t explain it. Maybe it’s one of those things that have to be experienced to understand.

  35. Shannon Says:

    In other words, you don’t have the right to call us brainwashed until you’ve been brainwashed yourself. Then it’ll all make sense to you.

  36. butchjax Says:

    If that’s all you got from that, there’s probably nothing I could say that would leave you at all receptive to anything on this matter.

  37. Shannon Says:

    Sometimes the brainwashing wears off, sometimes it doesn’t. In your case, it didn’t.
    If I were an American, I’d be pretty worried that the people who were supposed to be protecting me thought so little of me.

  38. butchjax Says:

    I don’t think little of you. I just don’t think you’re understanding my points. I’m far from brainwashed. I’m a very aware and conscious individual. I see people who drink the koolaid so to speak. I’m quite sad for them and sincerely hope they regain some semblance of clarity once they return to the civilian world. But they are the type of person that likely would be drinking the koolaid of any group they’re a part of.

    If you cannot understand or be willing to believe that there are very positive things that come from the military, then there is nothing I could say that would shift your perspective at all. And to try would be a waste of my time. That’s not denigrating you, it’s me recognizing the futility of the situation. However, if you do have questions, you are welcome to ask. I answer all honest questions.


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